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Thread: How do I disprove our universe doesn’t have a fixed size?

  1. #1 How do I disprove our universe doesn’t have a fixed size? 
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    People here will probably laugh me out of here but I can’t get it out of my head.

    What if instead of living in an expanding universe, we live in a fixed size universe where matter is dropped in from outside edge making the universe more and more dense and shrinking everything inside.

    What I actually mean is, we live in a (forming) black hole in another universe and all get pulled towards oblivion… would that not give the same observations and possibly help to explain dark matter and energy.

    Begin the laughter

    Kind regards.

    Napivo
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  2. #2  
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    Science fiction?
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    The expansion is equivalent to mass shrinking everything in size along with the amount of mass. So I think that working out what happens in the scenario where mass increases is ruled out by observation.
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  4. #4  
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhysBang View Post
    The expansion is equivalent to mass shrinking everything in size along with the amount of mass. So I think that working out what happens in the scenario where mass increases is ruled out by observation.
    At least A half decent question.

    So everything is getting smaller, so even our measurement tools, Relatively nothing changes from our point of view, at the small scale. (something like our solar system)

    but in the larger scale of things... Let's start with our galaxy for one the basic rules of gravity do not even apply anymore... all stars move at about the same speed around our black hole in about the same speed regardless of Mass. All stars that exceed a certain speed should be catapulted out of the galaxy. but they are not.... they call it dark matter. I am starting to think there is an external force pushing in on us. it looks more like the chucks in your soup when you stir it, they get dragged along.

    An then we have the dark energy, that everyone is so trying to harvest. The force that pushes us apart. I think it could be the matter falling into (or still) outside our universe? Pulling on us.

    For me this would make a whole lot more sense of the universe. Of why time relates to gravity. And why light gets bend by gravity when it has no mass? And why we never can reach the speed of light? And even why we have a left handed universe... as we are caught in a whirlpool.

    But then how would you disprove it when I say the speed of light changes where the universe gets more dense as your measurements would just become smaller there too.

    And as I said before... it does not matter on a small scale our formulas are more than accurate enough for our relative stable pocket of space... but if we really want to understand life the universe and everything I think we might need a complete other way of thinking and even inverse the way we see our universe.
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    But then how would you disprove it when I say the speed of light changes where the universe gets more dense as your measurements would just become smaller there too.
    'Prove me wrong' is the mantra of the crank.
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  6. #6  
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    You are right but what I really was asking was how can I find a way to find a way to solve a problem, where everything I was thought doesn't make sense anymore.

    And I don't even know if what I propose makes more sense.

    I just can't get the idea out of my mind until I understand, if it works or if it doesn't.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Napivo View Post
    At least A half decent question.

    So everything is getting smaller, so even our measurement tools, Relatively nothing changes from our point of view, at the small scale. (something like our solar system)
    So, all the forces and constants in the universe would also be shrinking too? The speed of light, the fine-structure constant (the coupling constant), the strong and weak nuclear forces, gravity, etc etc, all reducing in tandem with each other in order to keep things looking the same from our point of view?

    All forms of matter shrinking, all energy reducing, all forces weakening, all constants changing, all synchronised with each other somehow, in order that none of them seem to change relative to our shrinking selves, in order to keep the universe the same "size" (as viewed from "outside").

    Or... all matter and energy remains the same as it always was, all forces are invariant, all constants remain constant, and the universe expands...

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    We already know the speed of light is not constant... it changes with the Index of refraction of the medium it is passing trough.

    We know it can be bend by gravity. (Lens effect).

    So why does everyone start a fuss when I say light does not travel as fast throughout the universe? We really don't even understand what's out there.

    So yea... I am starting to believe our constants only make sense in our tiny little corner of the universe and we are but fish in a fishbowl. looking outside. We are like looking at a rerun on TV from sometimes thousands, if not millions, of years ago.

    Stolen from another post @ How fast is our galaxy moving away from other galaxies? | The Big Question

    Andromeda galaxy (Our nearest large neighbor): Moving towards each other at a speed of around 100km/s (225,000mph)

    NGC4151 (A nearby active galaxy): Moving away from us at 1000km/s (2,250,000mph)

    Most distant galaxies observed: Moving away from us at 580,000km/s (1,305,000,000mph). (This is faster than the speed of light and is a result of the shape of the universe!!!)
    So that tells me we are running after the facts and even if at one time we where floating apart it would take us a few 100000 years before we could see the universe starting to shrink.. I know, Andromeda is in our gravitational pull or is it inverse

    And then this little fun fact.... Meter is defined Since 1983, it has been defined as "the length of the path travelled by light in vacuum during a time interval of 1/299,792,458 of a second... So of course the speed of light is a neat 300 000 KM/s.. even if the measured speed of light could change.
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  9. #9  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Napivo View Post
    People here will probably laugh me out of here but I can’t get it out of my head.

    What if instead of living in an expanding universe, we live in a fixed size universe where matter is dropped in from outside edge making the universe more and more dense and shrinking everything inside.

    What I actually mean is, we live in a (forming) black hole in another universe and all get pulled towards oblivion… would that not give the same observations and possibly help to explain dark matter and energy.

    Begin the laughter

    Kind regards.

    Napivo
    What you're talking about is very similar to the Steady State Theory of the universe. It's a cosmological model that has been rejected by astrophysicists and cosmologists long ago. To see why read Steady State theory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Please let us not be so critical of people asking questions. Just because we know why something doesn't work it doesn't mean others know why. It seems very clear to me that Napivo was seeking answers and approached us with a "what if" which is the way a lot of amateurs know how to ask questions. What do you say? Let's give them a little bit of a break in the future? After all his idea was closed to a cosmological model that astrophysicists and cosmologists actually proposed. Did any of you know about it?
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    Thank you Physicist,

    As far as i know, no one on this forum managed to show me that the big bang was an explosion instead of an implosion.

    I know something has happened that was really violent... that wiped of everything that came before. Changed it and put this universe in it's place...

    Sounds like a Nuke doesn't it? (if you live on an atom?)


    I am a firm believer in string theory. and I think the big bang struck a cord making the entire universe vibrate. Creating all particles that make it up.

    I fear that, like a string struck with a cord, our universe will just chime out and everything will revert to it's base state before the big Bang, Waiting for the next note.

    No big explosion, not anything, just a fade out to nothing
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  11. #11  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Napivo View Post
    Thank you Physicist,

    As far as i know, no one on this forum managed to show me that the big bang was an explosion instead of an implosion.
    There is no event in cosmology that one can identify as a "big bang" when our galaxy started expanding. But it has properties that an explosion does after the event "explosion" in that all the material is rushing outward. That can't be thought of as either a static universe or one that's imploding. Please note that the big bang theory is a big different since any point in the universe appears to be the center of the expansion. But that's readily explainable within the theory.

    Quote Originally Posted by Napivo View Post
    I know something has happened that was really violent... that wiped of everything that came before. Changed it and put this universe in it's place...

    Sounds like a Nuke doesn't it? (if you live on an atom?)
    No. Everything about cosmological expansion is radically different than a classical explosion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Napivo View Post
    I am a firm believer in string theory.
    Why? Have you studied it and concluded that it's right when compared to its competing theories?
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