Notices
Results 1 to 30 of 30
Like Tree3Likes
  • 1 Post By Physicist
  • 1 Post By mayflow
  • 1 Post By mayflow

Thread: Suggestion to add to rules

  1. #1 Suggestion to add to rules 
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    551
    I would like to ask the forum administration/moderators (or whoever does this kind of thing) to add to the rules that whatever message is sent to someone in PM cannot be posted in open forum. When we PM somebody it's always assumed that it's only going to be read by the person we send it to. That is in fact why we send it in PM. Therefore nobody should ever take a PM and post it or part of it in open forum.
    mayflow likes this.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  2. #2  
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    236
    I second the motion. I rarely pm and when I do, I am careful to not say things I would be upset if put in public, but really personal does not mean public nor vica versa.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  3. #3  
    Administrator SpeedFreek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    322
    I tend to agree that private messages should, by implication, remain private, and the usual etiquette is that you need the persons permission if you want to make them public. I will raise this issue with the moderation team.

    But, I also think that private messages should be subject to the same rules as public posts - no spam, no trolling and no insulting behaviour or abuse, etc. Do you agree, Physicist?
    Reply With Quote  
     

  4. #4  
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    236
    Physicist can speak for his or her own self, but I agree with your first paragraph, but not your second, Speedfreek. If someone I feel is spammimg or trolling (probably the worst over used catchword on the internet) or insulting in a pm (how can a person POSSIBLY be insulted or feel abused by a pm on an inernet forum?) when that person can simply be ignored by the recipient of the message?

    In science, I believe simplicity is the most elegant of all theories. Straight and to the heart of the point, without contriving a bunch of rules and such convolutionated thinking. Short answer - private is private. If you do not wish to participate in pm convos, just do not do so. Simple fix.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  5. #5  
    Administrator SpeedFreek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    322
    The reason I asked the question in my second paragraph is that we get quite a few reported PM's, where the sender of those PM's is either spamming commercial links, or being rude or abusive, or is just being a complete nut-case, (we then take action against them) and I was wondering if we should make it explicit in the rules section that this is not acceptable.

    If you don't report the PM, we know nothing of it. But if someone reports a PM (which shows us its contents) it is obvious that they feel they cannot ignore it and want us to take action.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  6. #6  
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    236
    If it is that difficult for someone to ignore what they consider spam, I suggest they should not be on the internet. A physics forum should be for people who can think and fend for themselves, and if they cannot ignore spam on their own, maybe they should learn to?
    Reply With Quote  
     

  7. #7  
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    551
    Quote Originally Posted by SpeedFreek
    But, I also think that private messages should be subject to the same rules as public posts - no spam, no trolling and no insulting behaviour or abuse, etc. Do you agree, Physicist?
    Yes, but to an extent. There are reasons we want to send PMs and not put it in open forum. That's one purpose of a PM. Someone might say something so irritating or unethical that we want to slam their comment but not them.

    SF - I sent you a PM about this. Please read it. It gives you a real world example of why I'm asking this.

    Question: When we put someone on our ignore list are their PMs blocked from us receiving them too?
    Reply With Quote  
     

  8. #8  
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    236
    Is not the purpose of a pm to be private? If you report it to someone, it is no longer private. I am not very keen on doing secrets or pm's but I do think they should be respected as to the private nature, not reported or talked to to others. It may be more complicated if you are a doctor or a psychologist or lawyer where someone has confessed a violent crime or something, but this is just an internet discussion forum.

    The only time I came across something that may have been important enough on a forum was when I was a mod on the first forum I was ever on and somebody (also a mod) posted a link to where they were selling Kurdish children as sex slaves. I took the topic private to what we called the Captain's Lounge to discuss amongst the mods and the Owner and Admin. We considered that we would return it public but first we thought we should contact interpol about the link. The mod who had posted the link was also a part of the discussion. We all agreed to return the post to the public, but disable the link. It really did not matter, as interpol had already seen it and destroyed it.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  9. #9  
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    551
    I would think that there should also be a rule that if you don't want to receive a PM from someone then after you tell them that in a PM which you also forward a copy to a moderator then they can never PM you again. In that case I see that it'd be okay to say what you want. I don't like the idea that I can't privately tell someone to take a flying leap, but stated in my own beautifully charming way.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  10. #10  
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    236
    Physicist, you do not need a moderator to ignore pm's. If it is a pm, you can certainly tell them to take a flying leap, but I don't see why you would not rather just ignore them?
    Reply With Quote  
     

  11. #11  
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    551
    Quote Originally Posted by mayflow View Post
    Physicist, you do not need a moderator to ignore pm's. If it is a pm, you can certainly tell them to take a flying leap, but I don't see why you would not rather just ignore them?
    The same reason why some people don't ignore others when they get horrible mail from someone else. It simply pisses them off. I can delete the offenders PMs but I don't always keep track of who the horrible people are. I try to forget the horrible people as fast as I can and I do a good job of it. It's not all that long that I forget who sent rude PMs. So I might not recognize them when I get them.

    Then again there are moderators who you can't block and there's nothing stopping them from saying horrible things to you in e-mail such as swearing at you.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  12. #12  
    Super Moderator
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    At the foot of Bennachie
    Posts
    67
    mayflow, if you receive a death threat by pm, in which the writer makes it clear they know where you live, do you wish that pm to remain private?

    On other forums I have been made aware of pm content that was either illegal, or contained a threat of illegal action. I am glad the recipient did not ignore it.

    mayflow, if I sent you a pm saying I was distraught by the way you had responded to me on the forum and was seriously considering suicide, would you ignore that one too?
    Reply With Quote  
     

  13. #13  
    Senior Member Boing3000's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Belgium
    Posts
    194
    to add to the rules that whatever message is sent to someone in PM cannot be posted in open forum
    That is a non-sequitur. You are trying to solve a problem that does not exist in the first place.

    Post contents public or private, falls under forum rules. Your privacy is grantee by the rule 6, and even so, AFTER a mods sport it and remove the illegal material.
    The only reason you would PM someone is to share private information, like for example, your email address. Whatever the source "the web" or private message, it CANNOT be posted on the public NOR private section. That is a felony.

    Anybody that wants to changes forum rules should first interest himself in what a forum is. Especially the relationship it have with an agora.

    The fact you feel uncomfortable to post publicly is the indication that there is a problem with your message OR with the forum (beside a few minor house-keeping tasks). Moderator have some kind of responsibility about coherence of messages, and they have learned a lot from computing technology. Every-time you put forth a abstract and unneeded rule, your create dozens of security hazard. Do moderator will have to read all PM now ? Don't that have enough things to do already ?

    Post best guarantee of coherence IS their publicity. Something that needs hiding has no values for a public place.

    The more eyes, the more minds, the more truth.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  14. #14  
    Super Moderator
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    At the foot of Bennachie
    Posts
    67
    The fact you feel uncomfortable to post publicly is the indication that there is a problem with your message OR with the forum (beside a few minor house-keeping tasks).
    On other forums I have often run into situations where it emerges, by chance, that another member works in the same industry as me, or lived in the same area, or has some other common ground. In many cases discussing that further would be interesting, but would disrupt the thread in which the common interest emerged. A PM is then an ideal medium to continue the discussion.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  15. #15  
    KJW
    KJW is offline
    Super Moderator
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    861
    Quote Originally Posted by mayflow View Post
    If it is that difficult for someone to ignore what they consider spam, I suggest they should not be on the internet. A physics forum should be for people who can think and fend for themselves, and if they cannot ignore spam on their own, maybe they should learn to?
    If there is a spam-bot sending a large number of junk messages, then the moderators want to know this so that something can be done about it. This isn't just for the benefit of the recipient, but for the forum as a whole.
    A tensor equation that is valid in any coordinate system is valid in every coordinate system.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  16. #16  
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    236
    I don't get this topic. Physicist starts like if wanting a rule to not post publically a pm sent to one. I agree that this seems wrong to me to do. Then physicist wants certain others to stop pm'ing him (as far as I could tell) so I think well just ignore them. Then Opheiolite comes up with something about knowing where I live and wanting to kill me? Really, on an internet forum? And if that were even true that they would want to kill me, I seriously doubt telling on them to some internet mod could do me much good.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  17. #17  
    Super Moderator
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    At the foot of Bennachie
    Posts
    67
    mayflow, I used an extreme hypothetical scenario, however I have witnessed, on other forums, extreme harassment via pm. This issue was dealt with when the victim informed the moderator team, they contacted the ISP of the offender, and that individual lost their internet access, at least through that provider. You may not wish that protection for yourself - that's fine. Please don't place up barriers to others to have that safety net available should they ever require it.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  18. #18  
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    236
    It is just a lot more simple to ignore the persons doing the pm's. I think physicist said not being able to remember who they even were. How serious can it be when you can't remember who they were? As your extreme example, if the person actually knew who the intended victim was and where they lived and wanted to kill them, I don't see what kind of safety net it would be to contact an internet service provider? You can't kill someone in a pm, only in person. As far as you wanting to commit suicide? I believe that would be your own choice, not mine. If I were sick enough and terminal anyways, I may think about it, although of course I hope that never happens.

    I don't think I could kill another person, unless in protection of another with no other viable choice, but even maybe not then. We all will die one day, but we do not all have to intentionally kill another.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  19. #19  
    Super Moderator
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    At the foot of Bennachie
    Posts
    67
    mayflow, you have an uncanny knack for avoiding the central points of any discussion. Then, when someone logically points these out to you, they are subjected to a personal attack. Try to avoid that this time.
    1. In other threads you have spoken of the importance of sensitivity.
    2. I have suggested a scenario where someone communicates with you about their intended suicide, brought on by your behaviour.
    3. In this situation, do you notify the forum moderators, or take any other action that might prevent this potential act?
    4. No, you indulge yourself in a discussion of whether or not you could commit suicide.
    5. Where is the sensitivity?
    6. The conclusion is that you consider the privacy of a pm more important that the life of a member.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  20. #20  
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    236
    I don't know what the central point of the topic is. Physicist wanted a rule about wanting pm's to be prevented to be disclosed to the public, then seemed to be upset about receiving certain pm's - I do not see the connection - and it was you that turned it into something about suicides and murder threats - you want me to take your overly dramatic "this is about death or life" seriously?

    I still have no idea what Physicist is asking for or looking for on his thread.

    As far as sensitivity goes, it is not about the apparent actions and words of an individual, but about the intentions and subleties of and behind the actions.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  21. #21  
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    236
    Thinking about this reminds me of troubleshooting electronic circuits. You can never be certain that there is only one influence that is causing issues. So, let us troubleshoot. Someone caused a problem in someone else's mind. Someone else interfered, (Interference could be caused by malfunctioning feedback circuits) going out of phase. So this explains Physicist's confusions as they were caused by more than one faulty input. Or to go direct circuit, Opheliolite, if you want people to be nice, you should be nice. Get it? I graduated the Iron Horse Basic Leadership course in Fort Carson Colorado numero #1 in the class for one basic reason. Leading by example means leading by command, not demand, and it is necessary to be nice if you are wanting others to be nice.
    Physicist likes this.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  22. #22  
    Senior Member Boing3000's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Belgium
    Posts
    194
    Quote Originally Posted by Ophiolite
    In many cases discussing that further would be interesting, but would disrupt the thread in which the common interest emerged. A PM is then an ideal medium to continue the discussion.
    Not really. If you want to have such a two-way conversation, classic mail a way better tool. PM are already an anomaly on a forum. Warning, reporting, liking, should be easy, a click away, and part of the basic contract of any discussion, and public.
    Now there is no problem using PM for that, but that is more like using yet another form of messenger, and adding that in a forum software is already a security hazard.
    The example of KJM is very illustrative. If no PM existed, no spamming would be possible.
    If spamming was happening on some public thread, it would be spotted right away, and when a few people would have reported the spamming (a small icon report spam), the post would be removed automatically. All that without even bothering any moderator intervention, let alone the writing and reading of dozens of posts.

    The core issue here, is the content of those message would be harmless anyway, just inappropriate regarding the goal of the forum (science topic for example).
    There is no practical reason to give different right to private message than to public one.
    This thread is already borderline in that sense, unless one would try to understand the logical consequence associated with creating artificial hierarchies about information.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  23. #23  
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    551
    I'd like to suggest adding a new rule. Typically most forums ban advertisements on their forums but there's no such rule for this forum. For example; my favorite forum has the following rule
    The site is not for the promotion of business interests, or other personal ventures. The only exception to this is where the advertisement is supplied by the owners of the forum to further their own business interests.
    When I had my own forum I had to keep banning people for joining for the sole reason of posting their advertisements. It was horrible too because the ads were so totally incoherent that they were unreadable. They did that to get you to click on their URL to find out what all the gibber-jabber is all about.

    I don't recommend going so far as to prohibit asking about suggestions in the general section where you can discuss anything. In that section it'd be nice to be able to ask your fellow members with whom you've developed both a friendship and a rapport with. You'll see what I mean in the thread I'll create in a moment. Thanks.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  24. #24  
    Administrator SpeedFreek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    322
    Quote Originally Posted by Physicist View Post
    I'd like to suggest adding a new rule. Typically most forums ban advertisements on their forums but there's no such rule for this forum.
    Quote Originally Posted by Markus Hanke View Post
    Dear Members,

    please take note of the following rules and regulations governing this forum :

    1. No spamming of any kind
    Advertising is spamming.

    Spamming - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Electronic spamming is the use of electronic messaging systems to send unsolicited messages (spam), especially advertising, indiscriminately.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  25. #25  
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    551
    Quote Originally Posted by SpeedFreek View Post
    Thanks for pointing that out.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  26. #26  
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    236
    STOP PISSING ON SPAM! It ruins the pottasium and Zinc content + human piss is stinky and not tasty, and a whole town in southern Minnesota is based on working for Hormel.

    Spam is spiced canned pork shoulder meat. Spam (food) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia - they originally invented the acronym. Advertising is advertising and Physicist you were advertising your forum here. For me I think it is fine is and you should be able to. I think people should stop using popular buzz words and just say what they mean without degrading or changing words that really never originally meant what some have popularly changed them into.

    If some will just post ads here and not even participate on the forum, just delete it or ignore it, but if they will be willing to discuss give them the chance to, but do not call them the names that are meant to demean others or change the original meanings of words not coined by you or them.
    Boing3000 likes this.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  27. #27  
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    551
    Quote Originally Posted by Mayflow
    Advertising is advertising and Physicist you were advertising your forum here.
    I most certainly was not advertising it. I was merely looking for some advice on creating it, that's all. In fact to make certain that it couldn't mistakenly be interpreted as an advertisement for my site I made certain not to post either than name of the site, it's purpose or the URL. Also since it's a non-profit organization and we therefore don't sell anything. Since we don't sell anything anybody would be hard pressed to claim it's spam. Having a forum is but a small part of the website's functionality.

    So how was that "advertising my forum" here? Especially since it's a forum which requires an invitation to join then we can't market memberships, especially since we don't sell them either.

    In any case I deleted that thread because I changed my mind about seeking advice from the people who post in this forum. Nothing personal folks.
    Last edited by Physicist; 09-28-2014 at 07:09 AM.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  28. #28  
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    236
    Well, I have never seen this forum try to sell anything either. This is probably a forum that cost the owner(s) some money since I don't see any advertisements by a forum host here.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  29. #29  
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    551
    Quote Originally Posted by mayflow View Post
    Well, I have never seen this forum try to sell anything either. This is probably a forum that cost the owner(s) some money since I don't see any advertisements by a forum host here.
    My website is not a forum. There is only a small functionality to it having a forum, that's all. It's a non-profit organization (NPO) and as such won't make money. The purpose of the website is to serve the physics community. That's all.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  30. #30  
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    236
    Quote Originally Posted by Physicist View Post
    My website is not a forum. There is only a small functionality to it having a forum, that's all. It's a non-profit organization (NPO) and as such won't make money. The purpose of the website is to serve the physics community. That's all.
    You know I really would not mind making suggestions, but I would have to actually see what sort of site it is first. Are you to be the sole administrator?
    Reply With Quote  
     

Posting Permissions
  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •